Let's talk about Jan. 6 and the days after.

That night, Speaker Pelosi is insistent, along with [then-Senate Majority Leader Mitch] McConnell, that they're going to come back and finish the business of the constitutional obligations that you all have. And then the next couple of days, she's very involved in some telephone calls, and basically that 13 days before the next inauguration, she's filling the gap to some extent. … Talk about what that was like and how Speaker Pelosi thought about those days.

Jan. 6 is one of those days that is just marked not only in my memory, but I think in the memory of the country and our democracy. And Nancy Pelosi, not only on that day, when people were literally hunting for her, put all that fear aside and stood up and said, "We will continue with the business of the American people." And I'll just never forget how her confidence, her belief in our democracy, fueled our courage and our ability to return to that chamber, to step over broken glass where blood was still being cleaned, to know that people had died that day, and do what we had to do to uphold the vote of the American people.

And I often think about how Nancy Pelosi quotes Thomas Paine, that "The times have found us." And the times found her, and she gave us the strength, because it was Nancy Pelosi alone who had to act. We had a president who wasn't going to act. We had a colleague in the Senate who wasn't going to act. It was Nancy Pelosi that really held all the pieces of our democracy together, not only that evening but in the next weeks and months, as she persevered, singlehandedly, to make sure that we all had the strength to go forward.

So the next day, she and Sen. [Chuck] Schumer tried to call the vice president to request that he invoke the 25th Amendment. … Why was she doing that?

I think that Nancy Pelosi knew that she had to put aside whatever may be difficult or controversial, whatever we were hearing from Mitch McConnell and the White House and [House Minority Leader] Kevin McCarthy, and really be the one who encapsulated the danger that this president posed, and that this wasn't just a spontaneous rally gone wrong; that this was the result of a president who was trying to topple our democracy.

And that is what I've seen her do time and time again, is step into that breach. She stepped into that chaos. She overrode her own fears and the very real threats on her life and in her office, which had been vandalized, disrespected. She pulled those meetings together and did what we needed to do to stand up for the fundamentals of who we are as Americans.

Where do you think that comes from? … What's the most important thing to understand about her and why she did the things she did during those days?

You know, there's lots of talk about Nancy Pelosi as breaking barriers, the first woman speaker in our country's history. And all of that is true, but it goes so much more. Nancy Pelosi has shown women that they can be leaders. And she always talks about her top three priorities are the children, the children, the children.

And she is a mom of five. She always jokes that she has changed more children's diapers than any other member of Congress, and she takes that experience and her deep faith and applies it to everything that she does.

And so she has never been about power for the sake of power. She is about using her power to help families at home. And it is so integrated into her leadership style. It is so integrated into who she is that that is why, not only is she highly effective, because she knows her values so well, but it's also why she has redefined what it means to be a political leader.

First Impressions of Pelosi

Let's talk about her as a person, a little bit of her history. What's the first time you met her? … How did she appear? What was she like?

The first time I met her, she was coming to my district after I had won my primary. And I mean, I was just completely unnerved to be hosting Nancy Pelosi in my district and just—and she said, "You should ride in my car with me." And I didn't really know what to expect from someone who I had looked up to, who I considered such a leader, so redefining what leadership means for women in this country. And I've always felt truly seen by her.

And to get in this, you know, black SUV, surrounded by her security people, and to find this completely warm, charming woman who knew so much already about my family and the issues that I had run on, and just made those instant connections.

And I have since seen her do that over and over again in so many different settings. She genuinely is about seeing people and putting their priorities at the table.

Why is she so good at her job? …

You know, she always says to members: "Know your why. Why are you here?" And she knows her why. She knows she's here for kids. She knows she's here to build a future that is worthy of them. And everything she does is—it centers on that. And I think it is having that strong North Star that then she operates in. And she knows the parliamentary rules. She knows the ins and outs of how to get legislation done. She knows what makes people tick. And she is able to pull that all together so effectively.

… And I think that's what makes her more than just a brilliant strategist, more than just having an encyclopedic knowledge of the House and its history. It is that ability of knowing why she is there and able to bring people with her, because of her high level of integrity and always knowing she's working for the children of this country.

Pelosi’s Early Life

… Does she ever go back and talk a little bit about her history [in Baltimore] or when she moved to San Francisco that helps to define how she learned the skills that she has?

You know, what she really shares frequently with me and with others is the story of raising her kids and, you know, the admiration she has for the women who are doing both: pursuing careers, being providers for their families while raising children. And she is so acutely aware of the challenges that are faced by moms and dads around this country, and she draws her strength from that and from seeing what she wants to leave not only her children and grandchildren, but all of ours.

And that is what she constantly goes back to, that touchpoint of being a mother. And frankly, when I was coming up in politics, that would have been considered a third rail. Don't talk about raising children and changing diapers and the privilege that she felt to be able to not work and be at home raising her five children. You know, that was not the coaching that women were given running for office. And I think that's what's so remarkable about her. She's brilliant. She has an incredible ability to take in data and synthesize it. But she runs it through this filter of life experience and is able to keep us moving forward, with a focus on the American family. …

Pelosi and Trump

Let's talk about a couple things in the Trump years. There's the famous story of the first White House meeting where she goes … and Donald Trump starts to talk about some of his stories, about the fact that he took the popular vote in the election, and it's just because of irregularities that created a situation that he didn't win the popular vote. And at some point, the speaker speaks up and says, "No, Mr. President, that's not the facts." … Did it in some way set the tenor of that relationship, and do you remember that story of when it actually happened and what it represented to all of you?

I do. And the speaker came back into a meeting after she had returned from that one and was really just, you know, just couldn't believe what she had just heard in the White House. She has such deep respect for the institutions of this country, and to have a president of the United States feeding misinformation, lying about the results and undercutting that democracy, to her, that was such a deep outrage.

And I remember her coming back, still wearing her coat, and just talking about this moment. And I think it was captured in now that iconic photo of her literally being the only one to stand up in a room, pointing her finger at the president, surrounded by men who were capitulating to him. And that's the role that Nancy Pelosi has played in these very challenging years. Being the one who literally stands up and says: "We're going to fight for the truth. We are going to fight for this democracy."

You guys are in the minority at this point. … Did she have a strategy, even as Donald Trump is in power, to get back the majority? … Was it understood that Nancy Pelosi had a plan?

Yes. And I was the co-chair of recruitment for the 2018 cycle, and I can tell you that Nancy Pelosi never stopped focusing on regaining the majority from the minute the 2016 elections were over. And it was about knowing what's at stake. She saw early on that this presidency was dangerous—not only to our policies, our economy, to tax policies, whatever those particular policies may be—but she knew what a threat he was to the very basics of our democracy and our institutions that protect them.

And she knew exactly that she stood on the side of our Constitution and of equality and liberty and justice. And she saw that the way to get there was to win the midterms and be able to be that backstop that could prevent this damage to the democracy. And we were all fueled by that.

And I have to say, I traveled the country, and every time I would come back to Washington thinking, Wow, you know, I was in three states over the last five days and really, you know, knocking it out of the park; I'd run into the speaker, and she would say, "I was in 17," in the same period of time.

And she is really just fueled by what she saw as this threat to the very fabric of our country.

But the strategy, did you sit in meetings with her where she said—it's been reported—where she defined the strategy? "Tell people when you're out there talking to the candidates, we're not talking about Donald Trump. … We are talking about what we have accomplished and what we can do about health care and such." Was that clear in any discussion with her?

It was crystal clear. She knew the big issues around our democracy that were at stake. She also knew that people are busy and that people are facing a lot of challenges in their lives. And her message to us was, no, we were not going to talk about Donald Trump. We're going to talk about the work we're doing with the American people; that we're going to help reduce the cost of prescription drugs; that we're going to make an investment in infrastructure and rebuild America; and that we are going to get corruption out of government and protect the right to vote.

One, two, three. She knew it, and she instilled it in all of us.

Division in the Democratic Party

Despite her role afterwards, there was a group of moderates who are trying to get her out of the speakership, to bring somebody new in. … What about that division in the Democratic Party at that point, and how did she view it?

Yeah, I think what we saw was an undercurrent with some members that really started the summer going into the '18 election, that they had bought into the hundreds of millions of dollars of advertising against Nancy Pelosi, trying to weaken her as a leader because they know her strength, and they knew for Donald Trump to be successful, he had to weaken her.

And so it was a small group, but I think they felt that her leadership was not what we needed, and that we needed new faces to actually deliver on the majority in 2018. And clearly Nancy Pelosi knew what she was doing. She knew that the issues were around healthcare and making these investments in American families, about making sure that we were addressing corruption in our politics and getting big money out of it.

And she was relentless and focused, and she kept saying, you know—I would be much more upset about these attacks on her than she would be. She was laser-focused on what she had to do to save our country in that moment. And when she delivered it, there wasn't much of an argument. You quickly saw that the—any sort of uprising, saying that Nancy Pelosi shouldn't continue as speaker, was quelled.

… Talk a little bit about, during that same period of time, that iconic moment at the meeting Dec. 11, 2018, in the White House, where she and Chuck Schumer … have that meeting about immigration and the closing down of the government. … The cameras are there, and the president decides to keep the cameras there, allow them to stay. … The president says, "Well, Nancy probably doesn't want the cameras here because of her position," basically saying there was a discontent in the Democratic Party and that she was weak. … Talk about how she took that, what she said and what it meant. ...

Yeah, you know, Nancy Pelosi always tells us to know our power, and that each of us has a vote that is equal to every other member's. And so while we have seniority and hierarchy and leadership positions, that each of us is sent there by the same number of people, and we each have a vote to cast. And she knows her power. And she knows that what she had to do was deliver results. And she knew that she was going to do that, and that she would be the one who was able to stand up, to make sure that the government stayed open and functioned, and that we did not let Donald Trump take over every part of our government and destroy our democracy.

And so she knew her power. And she also knows why she's here and what she's willing to lose her seat over. And that gives her an enormous freedom, and it also makes her a formidable leader. And I don't think Donald Trump knew what to do with Nancy Pelosi, someone who is so consumed with how he is covered, so riddled with his own insecurities that come across in this bullying way, having to exaggerate and misrepresent everything about his life and his positions in order to keep that power.

Nancy Pelosi is the exact opposite. She knows exactly why she got into public service. She considers it service, and she knows that her power is derived from the success of the American people.

And I just don't think Donald Trump knew how to combat that. I don't think he was—he had surrounded himself [with] people that would mirror back for him exactly what he wanted them to show him. And to have Nancy Pelosi just be the one who constantly knew where she stood, and stood in direct opposition to him and couldn't be moved, I think it's why he never knew how to frame her, was never able to cause her fear and anxiety, which is how he operates.

Did she say anything when she got back to the office about that meeting and what had happened? Did she understand that coming out in that red coat and putting the sunglasses on with the little smirk on her face would be tweeted all across the world?

She came back into a meeting that I was in, and she still had the red coat on. And she said, "Apparently something is going on with my coat." So I think she already had an inkling that that meeting, just being classic Nancy Pelosi, and standing up for what's right and true, was turning into a viral moment.

So the 2019 period of time. She's in a tough situation. The caucus is split about impeachment. … She's dealing with both the progressives who are pushing to move forward quickly and a lot in the base who want impeachment, with the understanding that the Senate is never going to convict him, but also understanding that there are a lot of moderates who have seats in areas that could either go to Trump, or in the next election, she was worried about people taking back seats, so that was the practical side of her. Was that a difficult thing to control?

Extremely. You know, she had a lot of factions coming at her and a lot of competing passions. From the moment Donald Trump was inaugurated, there were certain groups that wanted to move forward with impeachment. And it takes a true leader who, someone who in so many conversations, just her feelings around this presidency and the danger he posed were so strong, and yet she kept that steady hand, saying, "We're not ready." Impeachment is our most drastic constitutional tool, and we have to be ready. And that goes to sort of the art that she brings and why she is going to go down in history as one of our most outstanding speakers.

It's sort of those intangible qualities of reading public sentiment, of making sure that we have the evidence and the data and picking the moment. And I never doubted that we would get there, but she really has the ability to pull in her incredible experience and her read of where we are in history. …

All of a sudden, after 2018, she had a new group of younger progressives, the Squad, who considered her not to be progressive enough. … Talk about that relationship with the Squad and how she handled it. Did it in fact cause ripples in the party, and is it causing change in the party in ways that we don't even understand at this point?

You know, we're all changing with new dynamics, new technology, social media, the 24/7 news cycle of cable. And one thing that I appreciate about Nancy Pelosi is that she is adaptive. She keeps changing her vision and strategy and adding new data points into what she needs to do. And, you know, for someone who's been in Congress for decades, that's not easy to do. And she continues to move and change.

So yes, I mean, it's sometimes ironic that she was one of the founding members of the Progressive Caucus but is often held up as not being progressive enough on certain issues. But that's OK with her. And that's what I think comes back to this fundamentals of what truly makes her outstanding, is knowing who she is and why she's here, and that she is about taking those ideals of equality and justice and liberty, and making them come to life for every single American.

And so she doesn't get thrown off course by the latest that's going on on Twitter, the latest criticism. She knows her why, and she keeps us all moving forward.

But her view of the Squad?

I mean, Nancy Pelosi is such a fan of her membership, even if they're not fans of hers. And, you know, she really appreciates that young women are coming into politics and they feel the urgency of these issues. They feel the urgency of having reproductive rights stripped away from them. She feels their urgency around the attacks, around the fundamentals of that right to vote. She feels the urgency of climate change.

And so while she doesn't always agree on tactics or certain positions, she also understands and tries to bring everyone in. That is not easy to do. …

In that one meeting where she says, "Some of you here want to make a fabulous pâté, but you have to understand what we do here is we make sausage, and we're a family that has to work together to do the job that we're sent here to do," what did she mean by that?

Well, you know, I think she really believes in representative government, and she understands that when you are bringing perspectives from my home state of Massachusetts and you're bringing them from Ohio, and you're also bringing them from Kansas and from California, that there are differences that have to come together. It's how we are supposed to work in government, is we are representative of different life experiences, of different constituents, and we have different economic factors playing out at home. And what she does so brilliantly is bring that together. And it's not always pretty, and it is not always easy—rarely easy. But she keeps pulling on those values, and she talks about her values while also knowing exactly how to count a vote and actually move these issues forward.

So it's this incredible combination of soft and hard power that she's able to balance. …

Take us to the State of the Union in 2020, that moment where the president makes a lot of questionable statements, gives the Medal of Freedom to [Rush] Limbaugh. How is Nancy Pelosi feeling about what was going on, and what leads her in the end to stand up and rip up the speech? … Was it emotional? Was it tactical? …

Yeah, I, you know, sitting in that audience watching her, always, always a woman of composure and grace, even in the most difficult times—but I think she wanted to be clear when she ripped up that speech that this was lies; this was misleading our country; this was misleading fellow Americans. And she wanted to show—and she said afterwards that she first decided, you know, if there was a page that he could get to without a lie on it, you know, she was going to leave it alone. But as she went through the speech, there wasn't a single page where he didn't misrepresent things to the American people.

And I think she wanted to make her point that she would be there; she would carry out her duty as speaker, and she'd do it with the grace and composure that she always conducts herself, but let the message be clear that this was a speech riddled with lies that were dangerous to our country. …

Pelosi’s Legacy

Nancy Pelosi knows that the clock is ticking for herself and the Democratic Party, and there is a midterm election coming up. … There's much to lose. … What's at stake at this moment? Does she understand it? If she understands it, how does she define it?

Yeah, you know, a lot of us have a coffee cup that says, "Stay calm, trust in Nancy." And I think that our trust in her comes from that she knows exactly what's at stake for this country, and that we have cleaned up the Capitol since Jan. 6 and restored it, that Donald Trump is no longer in the White House. But she is very clear that threats to our democracy are right there, and that the key to making sure that we get to have success in this great experiment called democracy is that we continue to work with the American people in the forefront.

And she does that balance every single day, of moving things forward strategically but also keeping us motivated and aware of the real threats that are very much out there. And that's why she is working so hard on protecting that right to vote, on making sure that every single child and their parents sees a place for themselves in our future in the economy.

And it is those intangibles that she brings to the speaker's position that is what is going to help us meet this moment and what is going to help us not only be successful as Democrats. It has never been about power for power's sake with Nancy Pelosi. It is about power that can build lasting change.

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